Podcast: Addressing the Accessibility Gap

• Listen to our podcast on Spotify
• Listen to our podcast on Apple podcasts
• Listen to our podcast on Google podcasts

Transcript

Richard: I think a lot of the time we've been told over the years, you know, this is what will work for you. This is what's gonna happen. And being constantly kind of almost, you know, well you know just basically overridden. And now we're saying no actually, you know we want to be the disabled actor in the film. We wanna be giving our voice, we want to be... when you're talking about disabled people, we want to be involved in the conversation and that's a very big passion of everybody that's involved in access rating too.

Erin O’Reilly: Hello and welcome to The Disability Download. The Disability Download is brought to you by pan-disability charity Leonard Cheshire. I'm Erin O'Reilly and on this podcast we respond to current topics, share stories, and open up conversations about disability.

Hi and thanks so much for tuning in to another episode. So at the time of recording this, things are continuing to move forward in terms of coming out of lockdown in England, and changes are happening across Wales, Northern Ireland and Scotland too. Just with regards to, you know, the services that are opening and the things that we're able to get out and do now.

And you know, everyone will be moving at their own pace when it comes to restrictions easing, and it's really important to respect that everyone’s approach is going to be different. But one thing that's really going to be important as we start heading back to our favourite venues is that venues and services make sure that they are inclusive and accessible. You know, unfortunately there are still so many gaps when it comes to accessibility in the UK, from train stations to banks, GP surgeries, concert venues, there's still so much that can be done to make sure that venues are fully accessible for everyone and take into account various different access needs. 

And May 20 also marks Global Accessibility Awareness Day, which is all about digital inclusion for disabled people. So we thought it would be the perfect time to have an episode all about a digital app that focuses on accessibility. My colleague Josh had a really great chat with Richard, who's one of the founders of access rating. It is an app that enables people to rate the places that they've been based on how accessible it was for their access needs. So a really great place to find that essential information, but also highlight some of those gaps that businesses really need to address. So Josh and Richard had a really great chat about how the app has been going, accessibility in general, and also how the pandemic shone a spotlight on accessibility as well. So, let's go over to Josh and Richard.

Joshua Reeves: My name is Joshua Reeves. I am the Campaigns Support Officer for Leonard Cheshire Cymru and today on The Disability Download we have Rich from Access Rating, how you doing Rich?

Richard: Good thanks Josh, how about yourself?

Joshua: Not bad at all, and it's just a Monday...Monday and I just want to get the week started really uhm so...

Richard: And no better, not better time to start in England with the pubs being open I think!

Joshua: Yeah, definitely [laughs] I'm looking forward to Wales getting the pubs open as well and, and the restaurants which leads into our main topic today on access. So if you could tell me Rich, what is Access Rating?

Richard: So Access Rating is an idea that was devised by three wheelchair users, disabled people, in a pub over their weekly pint. We had a shared interest in wheelchair sports, so that's how we kind of met up and then we thought you know what could we do to potentially help people like us? And one thing that we all had in common was discussions about accessibility and particularly discussions where we probably had a few moans and groans.

So we thought, OK, let's what can we do to obviously support and improve disabled access. And so we came up with this concept of access rating, which was basically to be very sim...well run quite similarly to what you regularly see on restaurants as hygiene rating.

So it was a way of people differentiating the places that were going to give them a better level of access than others, and that's kind of how it first came about. And we were just trying to work out ways in which we could get the voice of the disabled community heard. And then we decided we were going to create an app because we haven't seen many apps out there that were specifically for ratings and reviews of disabled access. So we created the Access Rating app which is available on the App Store and on Google Play. And it enables users in a very quick time to submit an, uh, access rating, so one to five and then also a small review of around, it's around 250 characters.

So we came up this idea of this app and we thought what else could we potentially add to that to support disabled people? So we decided what we’d do is we’d gather all the information on the Access Rating app and then once we've done that, we were going to use that information to then drive a positive change in businesses. So what we wanted to do was take that information to you, know your pub, or your shop or a restaurant and give them the information on, OK, so this is how this is what people think of the access, would you like any support to improve that?

So we've got a consultancy arm of what we're doing whereby we can offer things like staff training and disabled access audits. We actually started this as a social enterprise, so the funds that we accumulate go into community projects, which further down the line will begin to grow and we will, we're planning to recruit more disabled people... offer things like placements and work experience. And also work with our SEN community in the schools to really promote the movement from SEN school life, into work, which is something that obviously needs developing and has been developing over time. So that really gives you a rundown of what Access Rating is.

Joshua: Yeah! No, it's very, it's very good and obviously, I've obviously you know, I've been following Access Rating for a while, invested in it myself but, but with Access Rating is that it's very, it's very easy and very usable. It's not very hard. You don't need to like do a lot of sign ups to actually do a, do a review. And it's very tailored to obviously disability as well, and which I saw in the app.

So no, I genuinely recommend everyone to check it, to check it out. And it seems to be growing anyway, and as far as I'm looking at the reviews, and I'm excited to see what happens further down the line. But why is access so important to disabled people do you reckon Rich, from your point of view?

Richard: Well, I think access has always been looked at as you know, important to people with disabilities, but actually it's important to everyone. You know everyone’s family I mean will more than likely have somebody who’s say elderly or maybe has some sort of health condition, and so they all have, everyone has these sort of access needs and some are, some are hidden and some are you know, obvious such as you know, using a physical aid like a wheelchair.

But you know, we've got an aging population in this country, but also pretty much you know, in the world really and disability is on the increase between 2014 and 2019 it had gone up two million in that time. And so I mean the main, the main thing probably around access being so important is it's about everyone’s general wellbeing. And so you know if you've got access to areas where you can socialise, and areas where you can meet your friends and so on, you then can improve people’s mental health 'cause there's not that access anxiety of not being able to go out or to feel isolated at home.

And I think it all, it all kind of it really runs in a circle because you know access gives people better wellbeing and it also gives them access to things like jobs, access to support, and that all in all builds that better wellbeing of a person. And so there's a real big picture to it that I think people are starting to appreciate now. That it's not just about we, we see a disability sign, it's just a person in a wheelchair. It's not we're now thinking about people with cognitive impairments, people with visual impairments, hearing impairments, and so on, which is then created a more inclusive society. So it's a very important thing, and I think it's only going to get more and more important as time goes on.

Joshua: Yeah, and and it is important for access, 'cause for me being a wheelchair user, uh I tend to like want to try out different places. And for example there was a comic book store where I used to live in Cheltenham and I couldn't access it for like a long time and I just kept on going every single day to this, to this, comic book store and...not every single day but every single weekend to this comic book store, because I wanted to get in the comic book store. And he was like we don't have a ramp, but we have ordered one. It took about say two months for him to order one, but he finally had one because I was just nagging and nagging and nagging for access into the comic book store because...

Richard: Yeah.

Joshua: comic books help me with my wellbeing and mental health, and if I can't access something that helps me with my wellbeing then I'm gonna go downhill. And so yeah, and I think that's what that app does it actually lets disabled people know what, what, what’s around and stuff. And I think that's what you're doing such a good job on this.

Richard: I mean the benefits of it as well, erm like you know, it's very quick, so quick and simple, like you've said. We've also added that you can have, add your user needs as you register, so you're able to register with your user needs of either you know hearing impairment, cognitive impairment, visual impairment, with manual wheelchair, power chair, it's all there.

And as we’re developing the app, we're trying to make it as user friendly as possible to meet obviously everyone needs. I mean it does have a, it has a guide on there as to what we loosely kind of want people to look at their ratings by. Such as toilets, door access, level access, the floor space and the parking. That's kind of like a generalised things to look for. And just in case somebody is using the app that doesn't have a disability, and that's what the other thing we try to encourage is not just disabled people to be using the app, but actually everyone to be using the app and seeing it as a thing that's going to support the whole community, so you obviously get out more.

Joshua: Yeah..can you..obviously you've talked about the application and where to find it, but is there any other bits of information you could tell us about the application?

Richard: Yeah, so we've got features on there, such as an ability for us to identify where there's going to be a changing places toilet. So that's something we've begun to develop, so people can obviously use it to locate those. We've expanded the types of venues that people can actually rate, so we started off with a very simple database of hotels, bars and restaurants. But now that's expanded to pretty much any venue, through our connection with Google, so we're able to use Google Maps to actually locate sort of any venue so you can rate and review anywhere in your area.

And the great thing about it also is that you can actually filter the reviews by your access need. So for example for yourself, Josh, using your power chair, you'd be able to actually just go to, if you were going to a venue, you'd be able to just pick out and filter all the reviews done by power chair users, so you've not got to dig through all the reviews to find the information, and I think that's probably a key thing with reviews in general and probably as a disabled person you know what we have to look for online before we go anywhere. Because, you know we're often trawling Trip Advisor or wherever it may be that leaves a review and we'll be we'll be kind of, you know, hunting around for the key information of you know, can we get in? Or you know, just very simple things. Is there a toilet? Is there a disabled toilet?  And often it's very difficult to find that information. It's not always there, you know, clear and obvious.

So this enables the information to be there a lot quicker. And what we’ve also got is we've got a research team of volunteers that are also working to get more ratings on the app, so there will be more ratings of locations with just a general guideline of the accessibility, but then obviously it's up to the community then to leave their own reviews. We want your point of view, and your voice on as many venues as possible because we want to be able to use the power of those reviews to go to these venues and say you know either this is fantastic, we're absolutely over the moon at how good your access is. Or on the other side of it, the accessibility is very poor. This person had a very poor experience and you know, in order to get more people through your door, these are the things that you could be doing. And so it's a win win. You know it's a win for the business, if they do things positively. And it's a win for us if there's things they need to improve. But all in all, the improvement will help you know the community as a whole to access venues of all types.

Joshua: Yeah, and with that I find that very useful because, uhm, I just, I just hate when I go into a place  and it says that they're accessible because they've got a ramp there. But then when you have a look at the toilets, they’re just not very accessible whatsoever. And I think that with this with this app and what you’re doing with volunteers is very good, because it will actually enable myself and many other disabled people to, to obviously be more confident going out in society.

I think that...coming to the question I was gonna ask you about, how does it benefit disabled people? And I, I just think that, not answering the question I was gonna ask you, is that I think this app does benefit disabled people and will benefit disabled people especially when it comes out because like you said, Trip Advisor, yes, it's good. It's a good review system, but it don't, it don't just focus on access, accessibility. It is very hard to find reviews led by families or friends or disabled people who, who want that access...

Richard: Yeah, we all know right that disabled, sorry disabled access, you know we want to hear it from disabled people. We want the disabled people to have a voice, we don't want somebody telling us this is what's accessible. We want, you know as a manual wheelchair user, I want to tell someone what's accessible and I'm sure as a power chair user for yourself, you know you're the expert and I think a lot of the time we've been told over the years, you know, this is what will work for you.

This is what's going to happen, and being constantly kind of almost you, well, you know just basically overridden. And now we're saying no actually, you know, we want to be the disabled actor in the film. We wanna be giving our voice. We want to be... when you're talking about disabled people, we want to be involved in the conversation and that's a very big passion of everybody that's involved in access rating too.

Joshua: Yeah, well, there's nothing about us without us so!

Richard: Exactly.

Joshua: And yeah, and with that, the, uh, what, what are the main things that you think that needs to be improved to get better access into restaurants, pubs, community centers and etcetera.  Like what are there, what are the main key things that you think that could that pubs or restaurants should do now to get better access into society?

Richard: I think ultimately, you know we probably in the last few years we've started to look at some of the more complex scenarios with disability, which is great. You know, we, we’re moving places, you know we're looking at different disabilities. We're not just focusing on a wheelchair user, which is fantastic. But I'd say really for businesses, you've got to get your basics right. You've got to get your foundation right before you start looking at the next steps so you know you've got to get your physical access your, if you've, if you've got your ramp in place then fantastic, but has it got an automatic door?

If it hasn't, how does somebody then communicate to you that they need assistance and how, how then do your staff go out and communicate that message without making somebody feel like they're an inconvenience for going and spending their money there? Uhm, you know. I think physical access is a big thing. Having disabled toilets and actually having a consideration that disabled people need access to these things, is a massive step.

Also, parking, signage and your basic things to get somebody into your premises. From then on, there are other things you know, like restaurants could benefit from things like braille menus being on hand. I'm sure if you went down the High Street of any town, you won't come across many braille menus in restaurants. They'll probably think, oh great, that's a good idea, but they probably won't have many. So that's the thing we need these kind of set standards to be in place, and then we can start looking at OK what are we doing for people with autistic needs? What are we doing for people with you know other more complex, more complex needs.

But I think the standard things if we get those in place then it's a good foundation to then work off. Cause the fact is we're actually having that conversation and thinking about disability. I think a big thing that needs to be looked at is certainly all this legislation and rules around ramps and around adapting buildings and around this thing of you know, uh, if a building is kind of a, can't think of the word for it but, you know it's like an old building or a registered building? I think that's the word isn't it? [laugh] I'm not quite sure.

Joshua: Like a building like a church..

Richard: An old building [laughs]. And so adapting things like that, you know there's a lot of, there's a lot of legislations and rules around that, there's a lot of things about you know a shop owner if they want to build a ramp outside their shop, they can't because it's on a council pavement, but it will get more people in the shop and it will provide more facilities for a community. Uhm and those things do need to be looked at.

I think it still needs to be a uniform process and it does need to obviously follow health and safety regulations and you know whatever it means, but whatever it needs. But it needs to, there needs to be less of this kind of rulings and more thinking about the wellbeing of the community and a bit of common sense. I think probably on top of those physical things, I think businesses having consideration of disabled people is a great start. I think staff having the communication skills to not sort of wreck somebody’s day. I think that would, that would help. Because sometimes you do find you either, it's kind of, I think it's always kind of luck of the draw as to who you get with staff.

You know it's like you get one person, I mean really that that goes for anything and also disabled access. But you know you get one person very considerate, want to help you, come across very well, and then you get somebody else who just comes across as very rude and makes you feel like an inconvenience that you've gone to their business premises. So you know there are some things, attitude barriers that we need to, uh, you know, think about as well. But you know in terms of your physical barriers, like I say, if we get the foundations right and you know you can actually get somebody in your building and you're considering their needs in in fact, you know if they, if they need help with the door, is there a bell so you can kind of push, a push a buzzer and somebody will come out and help you? Very simple things like that.

I mean, for me you know I think, I think every, I think every shop and every venue needs a buzzer on the door, that'll say, you know disabled assistance. Because whenever I've used one of those, they're extremely useful and it saves me having to like, you know, sort of wave my hands in the street like a madman, everyone’ll be thinking you know what is this guy doing?  So you know, that's another important thing is communicating our needs. 

But I think it works, it works both ways. We have to you know, be you know firm but fair, but I think I think we do have to come across in the right way and communicate our needs, the best we can to enable them to then understand what we need. And you can't turn up at somewhere and expect that they know all of your little individual needs, 'cause everyone’s got so many different things they might require. Some more than others so it's about having the confidence to communicate those messages. And that's something that comes with really self-development to be honest, so I think there's things we can learn to make access better and help educate businesses along the way. And also, yeah, going out with that attitude of I'm representing my disabled community in a in a very positive way, is a very good quality skill to have.

Joshua: Yeah, and you mentioned the buzzers on the door, and there's a lot of them in Cardiff where I live. And there was one time I was in Cheltenham and it was a bank and I can’t say which bank it is. But they were like, alright, you've got an assistance bell there on the building, but to get to that assistance bell you need, uh, you needed to get up a flight of stairs to access level so people need to be aware that, yeah, put that bell somewhere not near a bunch of stairs so I can access it. Otherwise the bell is just a waste of money.

Richard: And I think that's why you need you need, you know, you need people in on the conversation to tell you know there's no good going and getting a bell and sticking it somewhere. You need to speak to disabled people and work out whether that's the right place for it to be and that's where you know disabled audits can be done and where consultancy can be done as well. And you know it, its people say, well, that's an expense. But the thing is, you're paying for somebody to give you the ability to get more people through your door and earn more money as a business. So whenever businesses say oh it costs this, it costs that I always think to myself, well, do you want people spending? Do you want people spending their money in your business or don't you? You know simply, you know, if I turn up, do you want my money or not, you know?

Joshua: Yeah, that's the way I see it. Cause I've been like, post like before pandemic I used to, I used to go a lot of times out to pubs and nightclubs and there used to be no access to the lift and we were like, they were like oh we're not in a rush to get it and I'm like yeah but all these people, all these people who are disabled that needs to use your lift to get into the building, you’re basically losing money there, which you don't realise.

Because people go oh it costs too much money to have a lift fixed when actually, if you make that product, if you make that lift fixed or that acccess, access problem if you, if you thought about that and make sure with that the problem becomes a solution and becomes a way to get disabled people into your place, then you can build up more profit for that and then more money. Rather than just basically going it's out of order, let's just keep it like that, cause it's gonna cost money. Well, actually you're gonna build up on money because you're going to get more people coming into your place if you if, you fix the problem.

Richard: I mean, I think, like you know people often have this opinion of disabled people, that we're kind of, we're moaners, we’re moaning all the time. But you know they don't realise when you're dealing with it every single day, there's all these constant gripes. It builds up, and it's, and it's not, it's not something we've all.... you know we don't want to be having to deal with all these frustrations. You know everyone’s got their lives to lead. We've all gotta earn money and go to work. And you know and try and you know, support our families and whatever it may be and the stress of all of the other stuff on top of it. No wonder we moan.

Joshua: Yeah

Richard: That doesn't mean we're moaning because...We're moaning because we haven't got access to the same things as other people and we've got this constant stress all the time of can we get in there?  Can we get up, up those steps? Can we get round here when I turn up to somewhere? Is it going to have a hearing loop so I can, you know, hear the cashier or whatever it may be. Or is it going to have the parking? And is the parking going to be right and are people going to be using the disabled parking in the right way? And so many variables and it always...and then down to things like you know your transport? Can I get on the bus? Can I get on the train and so on and so on.

So if you put all those things to somebody that has no disability they would crumble, they would, they would think how do you deal with this daily? But that's what Access Rating is, it’s, therefore, it's about empowerment. So if you want somewhere to vent, vent on the Access Rating app, because what we're going to do is we're going to then take that information and use it in a really positive way to help businesses make it better for you. So yeah, try and see it as a real trailblazing tool.

Joshua: And with that then, has it, has it be more challenging to promote access with Access Rating in this pandemic?

Richard: Well,  what I'd say is yeah. I mean we haven't had, you know as many ratings and things coming through, but I'd probably say like you know, for disabled people the social distancing setups in shops, the queuing setups, the parking, we've seen a lot of things that really do show how far down the line the priorities of disabled people are. Uhm, which is upsetting at times, and it would be nice if we could see us being thought of, you know it would.. I know, I know the pandemic came very quickly, but to have no consideration that we were taking away disabled parking spaces, we were making queues narrow, we weren't thinking of people having to wait outside that might have mobility issues and actually saying, you know, can you come in?

I'm sure some places have done that, but there will be a high proportion that obviously haven't and haven't really gave disabled people a second thought and just thought well they won't come out 'cause they’re because they're ill or whatever you know and you know that's not the case. Not every disabled person was shielding, but.. every shop has had to have these kind of measures put in, which I'm sure has been difficult, but you know, we don't want to be left outside and we don't want to be felt that we're not thought of. So I think I think it's highlighted a lot of things, I think that's probably a negative, but I'd probably say a positive is work from home’s arrived. Finally, people realise you don't have to work in an office miles from your home to do a job, which means it opens up the job market to millions of disabled people. 

And so I hope businesses don't...I don't want it to and I don't want that side of things, people keep saying go back to normality. I don't want normality with that. I want businesses to continue realising the potential of disabled people can be explored when they have an ability to work from home and their needs can be met in a home environment. And they will be more productive most of the time, less tired, and it's a win win. So as much as I can say about some of the issues with access, haven't been top, the work from home stuff I mean, that's a real fantastic opportunity for us, and it's something we do not want to let slip now. You know, we've made...they've made that step so we want to encourage as many disabled people as possible to get into work, showcase their talents and show that work from home makes things possible.

Joshua: Yeah, it's mad to think that a pandemic has just made, it made employers go right, people can work at home. And we, we've been asking this for years disabled people have and it's just mad to think that a pandemic just made employers go, oh we can work for home now then. But we’ve been, we’ve been saying that we could do this for years and years and years. But then it's mad how they just, I hope that it continues to grow now like you said and I just hope that this is an eye opener, for like for like people not to be, not to have that exclusive oh you can't work at this place because we haven’t got access. But now because you can work at home...we...you could give access in your home to work from your PC or from your laptop.

Richard: I think it allows a variation doesn't it, it allows people to, you know you could, you could, you could do half and half, you know, not everybody wants to work from all the time.

Joshua: Of course

Richard: It's quite isolating, but some people what they might want to do is they might want to work from home and then they might want to do a day or two in the office where they can be around people socialising.

Joshua: Yeah, of course.

Richard: And it's really a real, flexible, flexible working is really the keyword. So yeah, so we're obviously at Access Rating, we're a big big fan of that. And a big fan of obviously more opportunities for disabled people to obviously get into work as well.

Joshua: Yeah and you mentioned just now, about shops and about the pandemic, and that obviously you've been struggling to get reviews and stuff because of the pandemic...

Richard: Yeah.

Joshua: Well, because Wales is now lifted and I'm going to go to the shops on the weekend, I hope so, so I can see whether shops are actually allowing disabled people to social distance in the shops and how it's going to work because I just feel like if I'm scared to go out to be honest, I'm scared of saying that go into a shop and then going well you can't come in here because your wheelchair’s too big. And that we've gotta put measurements in place because of the government, so that's what scares me. But let's just see on the weekend and I'll put a review on it as well. I'm likely to go to one of my favorite shops.

So like I said is that one shop in particular I could think of is quite narrow, narrow anyway, which concerns me because last time I went there in the summer, which I didn't go in, but I saw a massive queue outside the shop. So I'm just a bit worried about that and a bit scared of going and anxiety levels are going up, but I realize that I gotta force myself to push and to move on, and then to be, and to be confident going forward, because otherwise I'm gonna lose my independence if, if I don't face my fears. 

Richard: Yeah, it's for society to understand, obviously you know there are gonna be people

Joshua: Yeah, course

Richard: Out there that aren't going to be as confident as others like, for example, for myself. I would probably, I would probably be OK going to a, for example, a quiet pub garden. As long as people respected distance. Uh, but that's the, that's the bit I think I think people coming out of this, I think we need to come out of it in a in a steady way because you know Covid will be around and we need to be aware that some people aren't going to feel as confident as others.

Disabled people yes, but also anyone; you know there is going to be a lot of people out there with this real anxiety, uh, of people coming close and you know, not social distancing. So so yeah. Yourself going out and not being isolated, we need other people to understand the importance of respecting space, which is something you know as humans, we're not used to, you know, we're all very crowded together and you know used to going out and being crowded and then all of a sudden, oh you've gotta keep a better distance, is it's, it's a bit of a wild thing for us to have to do, But you know, if we can, if we can do that, and I think it's going to help people no end.

But I mean really, people need to, you need to from my point of view, with access and with covid, I think you need to follow your rules and you need to do what you're comfortable with. I think it's very important that friends of disabled people and family of disabled people respect if you are nervous and respect if you are anxious of going to certain, busier places. I think peer pressure it's going to be a big one. Yeah, you probably gonna get a lot of friends come on, you're alright just come out, have fun.

And obviously they want to have a laugh but you know it's a it's a bit of a different thing for some of us. So so yeah, I think respecting each other's space and respecting each other's wishes is going to be a really crucial thing as things open up. And we get out, you know, submitting our access ratings on all those venues and you know, we want to hear the good stuff. We want to hear the one here the bad and the ugly. But you know, we want to hear the the good bits. So if you've got a favourite shop, pub, restaurant, hotel, whatever it is and you want to give them some good comments then please get on the app and tell us how good they are and at the same time if they're not as good get on the app and have a vent.

Joshua: Yeah, well, if they all positive it could show that not all disabled people are moaning myrtles then (lauhs)

Richard: Yeah, it's not designed to have, it's not designed as the moaning app. This is designed as the positive act for either change or...

Joshua: Yeah.

Richard: Or massive celebration on how good somewhere with access is. You know, wouldn't it be great to be able to go to somewhere and say, well, I've put a review on the Access Rating app, here's your review. You’re amazing.

Joshua: Yeah.

Richard: This is what everyone is going to see that, so that that's on the app. So you know, we got to see it as a positive thing mainly. 

Joshua: Yeah, so I'm gonna wrap up the podcast there and would you like to add any other things about access or Access Rating before we go off anything that you'd like to plug?

Richard: Right, well, I think a final plug would be....what the wisest thing for me to say is please download the Access Rating app. It's available on the App Store on Google Play and simple to download. Register your details and get out there rating venues. And if you want to keep an eye on the activity of Access Rating, we've got a Facebook page or Facebook group all under the name of Access Rating. I've also got Instagram, Twitter, so have a look. You can catch more information about myself and the team at Access Rating at www.accessrating.com. But yeah, that's it from me Josh and I'd just like to say thank you to yourself and Leonard Cheshire for having me on today.

Joshua: Yeah, well thank you for allowing us to talk to you about access. I think it's a very important subject for disabled people and I think that it never goes away thinking that, thinking that stuff is going to get better. There's always improvements needed to happen in in the UK and in the world really about access for anyone not just disabled people. So yeah, thank you.

Richard: No problem, thanks Josh.

Erin: Just want to say thanks so much to Josh and Richard for that really engaging chat. I think it was really interesting just hearing things like, you know, considering how social distancing measures didn't really take accessibility into account and just hearing from Josh and Richard about their own experiences with the barriers and challenges that they faced before.

And I just hope that you know apps like this and conversations can really highlight to businesses and venues the importance of inclusion and making sure that venues are truly accessible. And that it doesn't have to be a really costly task and that it's just really important that everyone is able to access everything. I know Richard mentioned a few links to do with Access Rating, so I'll put all of those in the show notes on our Simplecast site so you can check them out there.

And as always, we want to hear what you think. So please do get in touch with us by emailing disabilitydownload@leonardcheshire.org or DMing us on Instagram or Twitter @Leonard Cheshire. We want to know what you think. Any episodes you'd really like us to cover a specific topic on or if you've got an idea for a guest as well. So get in touch.

And please do remember as well to like, share and subscribe to the podcast. Thanks so much for listening everyone, stay safe until next time, I'm Erin and this has been The Disability Download.