Accessible Travel with Arunima Misra

Arunima Misra: The most that you can do is prepare and plan and I always play out the worst case scenario, so that's what I do. That, if the worst case scenario happened, how will I solve for that in the moment? And then if you're willing to take that risk and that leap of faith and you've played out the worst case and you've got yourself a solution, I think the anxiety will always be there. But if it's there anyway, then you might as well put it to good use. And try something new.

Isaac Corrick: Hello and welcome to the disability download brought to you by Leonard Cheshire. In this podcast, we respond to current topics, share stories, and open up conversations related to disability. In this episode, my colleague Josh speaks with guest Arunima Misra about all things travel. Arunima talks about the good and the bad aspects of holidays as a wheelchair user, and gives us her top travel tips.

Joshua Reeves: Hello everyone. My name is Joshua Reeves and welcome to The Disability Download. In today's episode we discuss the positive and negative sides of accessible holidays. What it's like to be a holiday goer when you have a disability. I would ask you to introduce yourself if that’s OK?

Arunima Misra: Yeah, of course, Josh. Thanks so much for having me. My name is Arunima Misra and I'm a wheelchair user living in London. And it's a privilege to be here on the podcast. And thanks so much for having me on to speak to you. I mean, I'll just quickly touch upon why I've got this love for travel. It's all started from my childhood, really. When I was born, obviously I was born with my disability and my father sort of made it his mission to show me the world. So from a really young age, because he knew that later on in life I was going to probably face difficulties travelling around, and he was definitely right, he decided that while he could and had the strength he would show me all countries all over the world. Take me everywhere and just make sure that I wasn't restricted in any way from seeing other places and experiencing other cultures, so thanks to my father I've been travelling since I was very, very young. It was a lot. It was very cool. Yes, it was a lot easier then though, cause he could just shove me on his shoulders and just carry me around. So I didn't have the same difficulties that I have now as an adult, travelling independently as I did obviously when I was little. Whether a holiday is a good experience or a bad experience for me often doesn't depend on the country, the climate, the hotel. It's nothing like that. It's whether my wheelchair ends up arriving at the other end in one piece. That will dictate whether I've had a good holidayor a bad holiday. There's really no more magic to it than that.

Joshua Reeves: So have you had times when your wheelchair has broken down then, or?

Arunima Misra: I predominantly- I've been on coach trips and that was fine and I've been on a cruise and you know, obviously that was fine. The issue comes when I'm going anywhere that involves in a plane. And that's the majority of my travelling. So unfortunately, more often than not, my electric wheelchair or my mobility scooter or my little travel scooter, whichever one I've decided to take. Ultimately, when we get to the other end and they bring it to the gate after a lovely long wait, as I'm sure a lot of your listeners. About, it's almost always broken or damaged in some way. The times when I've been travelling with my family and my and my wheelchairs been damaged then we've spent probably the first few days, first week of the holiday, frantically looking around the somewhere to repair it. I remember we did that in Mexico. We were only on a two week holiday and it took a week for us to find someone that could repair the chair. So whilst I've not had to go back home before, it certainly does put a real dampener on the holiday. Not only for me, and also for my whole family, really, it's not fair on them. But that's always what we've done is we've tried to look for somebody local as soon as we get there to try and fix it.

Joshua Reeves: In terms of research and doing research with these repair people- because I want to know whether do you research and plan your holidays to ensure that accessibility isthere as a wheelchair user? Because for myself it's kind of a struggle sometimes.

Arunima Misra: No, that's a really that's a really good question. I think when I'm traveling with family, I don't because I've got the safety net of having them all around me and you know, whatever they book, I can almost guarantee that it's accessible. And if it's not, then I know that I've got an army of people that, you know, ready to to help and to carry things and carry me around. So, I don't plan necessarily on our family holidays, especially because these are always booked by my brother or my sister and so they take the reins. But when I'm travelling on my own, which have started to do more and more in the last three or four years, that's when I have to start researching. I've started to research sort of, you know, wheelchair repair companies in wherever I'm going or wheelchair hire just in case something goes wrong, and I always have to try and get Airbnbs that are accessible, but that's difficult because, especially for going to kind of far-flung places, I go in the Caribbean a lot and you know you don't get wheelchair accessible villas as standard over there. So yeah, it does involve quite a lot of prior homework.

Joshua Reeves: Yeah, I've been to Antigua before, and I remember this one place I stayed, they weren’t accessible but they made it accessible by knocking down the shower room to let my shower chair get in. And I can imagine that they couldn’t- wouldn't be able to do that in the UK.

Arunima Misra: That, I mean that was very accommodating. That's amazing.

Joshua Reeves: Yeah, yeah. It was and I was honoured that they did that. But yeah, I just- It's kind of hard when you go to a country that, you know, when you do the research, what is the accessibility like, what is the government like? How do they treat disabled people? And then you think, whoa, do I really want to go to this country? But then you do because it excites you because you just want to see how disabled people live their life there as well.

Arunima Misra: No, of course. And I think you can relate as a fellow disabled person yourself. It's very easy to get stuck in a comfort zone and just go to the same places that you're comfortable with. I mean that's travelling and for me that's in my daily life. I'll go to the same restaurants, I'll go to the same pubs. So, you know you're right to try and avoid that monotony, I don't see why disabled people can't have that same freedom of movement. It's just we're so restricted by the environment around us.

Joshua Reeves: My friends always said to me to get out of my comfort zone. Well, the biggest challenge is like, obviously, you mentioned the biggest challenge is in the airport and stuff, but how did you overcome those challenges and when your wheelchair turned out damaged or not working at the other side?

Arunima Misra: So, I've done a lot of research and not only into holidays, but also into travel scooters, so I've spent a lot of money trying and testing the various different scooters that fold up that are allowed on planes that are lightweight. You know, things that I can maneuver myself and that have, you know, the least possible chance of getting damaged. So I've, you know, I've burned through scooters and you know, through trial and error, found a couple that seemed to do the job. So in that regard I'm trying to get over the hurdle of the damage, but then nothing is guaranteed and to be honest, if if you asked me have I found a magic solution to the problem I really haven't. I still get exactly the same anxiety every single time I travel. I'm stressed. I get upset. When we land, I'm not happy. I'm just waiting with dread just to wait and see what's happened to my chair. And it's not until I'm sat in it, the keys in the ignition and I press go that I am calm. So I don't think I've found a solution actually to the problem to be honest. I just have to push through it.

Joshua Reeves: Yeah. And that's the case for a lot of us, I guess the listeners of ours listening in, if you were happy to share your stories as well with us that'd be great because it's positive and negative, but also the story that you said about your wheelchair, about the anxiety and I’ve had that several times where I’m like “what if we land now and I can't even move”. Not even about my wheelchair working, because I can’t bear weight, so I will literally justbe stuck. But like I said, it's that fear and anxiety, and the thing about me for traveling, I don’t knowwhether you share in this, but if you can't bear weight as a disabled person, they make you hold your bladder until the journey's over.

Arunima Misra: So I have lightly hovered around on crutches for very short distances, but it's very, very short. So like say for example if we docked- if we landed and it was on one of those- if we landed on the runway you know where they get those stairs and the people walking up and down those stairs into the plane, like I wouldn't be able to do that in a million years. So I've been lifted on and off planes like that before and that was pretty scary, like that. I didn't enjoy that at all.

Joshua Reeves: Makes you feel like if you're Hannibal Lecter, from Silence of The Lambs.

Arunima Misra: Yeah, yeah, it's not a fun experience. But yeah, it's, I do- I do feel like, you know, holidays are things that people look forward to. You’re supposed to go with excitement and enthusiasm and it's a break from the day-to-day and the monotony. But you know, nobody wants to start their holiday with chronic anxiety and stress, do they?

Joshua Reeves: No, they don't. And that's the problem is that- the world is not fitted for disabled people to go on holiday. And it's really annoying and I see that but, it needs to change. But yeah- do you advocate for this change anyway?Are you an advocate- do you advocate for accessibility on your travels and if so, have there been times where you have advocated or campaigned or put on social media that, this place isn't accessible?Oris accessible?

Arunima Misra: Do you know, for a long time, I think I just decided that it was something that I would inevitably have to put up with. And I think as a disabled person, we can often feel like that, that there's not much hope, so, oh well, we’ll just have to like it or lump it really. And I think for years, I thought that my voice wouldn't make a difference. And that I would just have to continue to solutionize, to solve my own problem, rather than being an influence in any sort of high level, and I think it wasn't until Sophie Morgan began her Rights On Flights campaign and people were contacting me more and more to talk about this, that I realized we've got enough strong voices now in the community to be able to drive some real positive change and I felt confident enough to start giving my voice to these things. But I think before that I felt like I was just a small fish in a massive pond with not that many allies. And that and you know, maybe we all felt like that. But I think Sophie sort of brought us all together. Especially when it comes to flying and giving us all a kind of a unified voice, which has been really, really helpful in me finding my own.

Joshua Reeves: And when you don't have that voice, it makes you not want to go on holidays as well. But then, but then in terms of... what advice would you give disabled people who want to go on holidays, and have never been, because they're scared of, they might be trapped or it might not be accessible for them. What advice would you give to make sure they have the best holiday?

Arunima Misra: Listen, I think is a disabled person, you cannot get away from planning. You just can't, like... Spontaneity is not something that we can take for granted in our lives, and I think, so... If it's the first holiday and you know they've never, you've never travelled before and you're looking to go on your first holiday, start local. I would get the confidence and go somebody- somewhere local in in the country, find a venue that's perfect for accessibility. That suits your needs. Find a mode of transportation to get there that you are comfortable with and that you're happy to test or to try. But stay in this country and then that way you'll gain the confidence to sort of, go away for the first time, but it's not so daunting that you're flying all the way across the other side of the world.

And I think little by little, once you start, as you said, Josh, getting out of your comfort zone and testing yourself a little bit, I think you'll be very surprised at how much you can do, how much you can achieve and that you know the world isn't closed to you. It's just, it's a case of building confidence. I mean I've only just in the last four years- I'm in my 30s- and I've only just started to travel independently completely on my own. So it's a journey, but it's worth starting.

Joshua Reeves: How is that like then? Because, as a disabled person myself and someone that potentially wants to go on my own, or with a friend and stuff. Because I was forced: I have to go with family or I have to call for support, but was that always a concern for you? Because I just think to myself “what if something goes wrong?” Do you have that anxiety?

Arunima Misra: I don't think I ever don't have that anxiety, whether I'm travelling or not. I think I have that permanently running through me on a daily basis 24/7. When I'm out and about, what if my wheelchair breaks down? What if something goes wrong? What if someone takes my phone, and you know, youcan’t run after them. You know, I'm just constantly, constantly anxious. But I do think that it's often- and it's very easy to become trapped by that anxiety. But the most that you can do is prepare and plan and I always play out the worst case scenario. So that's what I do, that if the worst case scenario happens, how will I solve for that in the moment? And then if you're willing to take that risk and that leap of faith, and you've played out the worst case, and you've got yourself a solution, especially if you're going with a friend. I think that's really recommended rather than doing everything by yourself. I mean, that's- That's not easy at the best of times. So I think the anxiety will always be there, but if it's there anyway, then might as well put it to good use and try something new. [Laughs]

Joshua Reeves: You- you gotta start these vlogs on YouTube- I don’t know whether you do Youtube and stuff, but that's-

Arunima Misra: I don’t do Social Media, Josh, actually! You're gonna have to try and convince me because I I went off it years ago! [Laughs]

Joshua Reeves: Oh no – just YouTube or TikTok, you just need to share your experiences on a video where you could actually vlog yourself going, going to places as a disabled person on your own because-

Arunima Misra: [Inaudible]

But it's it's getting away that stigma as well, then, thinking, well, I'm on my own, know what I mean? And I don't need my family to, obviously, cater for me. Do you get what I mean? And it's just that misconception.

Arunima Misra: Yes, you're right and sort of breaking down other people’s probably entrenched and ingrained stereotypes that they have of us and our levels of independence. But I mean, I'm not- I will say to you, Josh, I'm not just saying, I'm not saying it’s easy. Like I will be completely, brutally honest with you. I'm not sat here telling you that it's a dream and that you know it's the best experience ever in my life and that every time I'm really excited about travelling on my own. I'm always doing it to prove to myself and to society that it's possible. But you know I get really, really frightened every single time I go. I'm always anxious and I'm always thinking “oh my gosh, is it really worth it?” But I've grown so much in confidence. And I think for that reason it's worth it.

Joshua Reeves: Before we continue on with today's podcast, we would like to get some information from one of our listeners. Now this guy called Kyle went to Germany, who has autism and is keen to encourage disabled people to travel. And he has sent us a video of what it is like to be in Germany.

Disability Download Listener, Kyle: This is my second trip abroad and I'm here in Luttingen, Baden-Wurttemberg in Germany as part of my second winning trip with the Welsh, the French, the Hungarians, the Swiss and the Germans. It's been absolutely fantastic here. Been here since Friday and then coming back today, but we're here and I've done 28 mile bike rides, drunk loads of German beer. Got to know the locals and it's been absolutely fantastic and there's over 80 nationalities here. And I think in regards to travelling and in regards to a disabled person, disabled people, they can travel and they're not just subject to where they live, they can, they can enjoy whatever they do in terms of travelling and I think autistic people can push the barriers of national travel, even international travel and and it's great to be in Germany, but I think to myself in the end with going international and to other cultures, my poor liver. I drank so much German beer.

Joshua Reeves: Where have you been then, on your own? Would you mind sharing that with the audience?

Arunima Misra: No, of course Idon't mind! So I don't- I honestly don't now why I always choose the most typical options in life for things. So I decided to go on my own to LA, I was meeting my family at the other end so that was cool, and I've been on my own to Singapore. And that was one of the holidays actually, I got to the other end and my scooter wouldn't work. And by the grace of the universe, it started working about an hour or two later. Thank God. And I've been recently to the Dominican Republic, so I go there a couple of times a year at the moment. That's tricky. That's tricky because I used to have to get two flights, so I would stop off in New York and then get a flight from New York to to the Dominican Republic. I've now decided to just go direct because the two flight thing- If one flight causes me, like, the amount of anxiety that it does, imagine 2. So I've decided to just go directly.

Joshua Reeves: I hate train changes! Never mind-

Speaker 4 So it's worse, any change is awful for me, I don't like it.

Joshua Reeves: Singapore – what was that like, especiallyto experience that on your own and stuff, what was the accessible routes like?

Arunima Misra: So Singapore, access was actually really good. They're, you know, they're smart, they're slick, they- it seems like they do respect access and they do respect the social model of disability, which reflects the fact that, you know, society needs to change and rather than the onus being on the disabled person themselves, so they seem to get it. All their- or, a lot of their taxis are accessible and obviously I'm only speaking from the point of view of a wheelchair user. But it was easier in Singapore and also there's a real can do, helpful attitude which I found in the Caribbean as well. Like everybody will bend over backwards just to make sure that you're OK. And I think that in itself is quite comforting.

Joshua Reeves: Yeah, no, I agree. I agree. I remember when I got stuck in the sand in the Caribbean. 7 people tried to lift up mywheelchair and stuff, and yeah they were, you know- anyway.

Arunima Misra: Have you ever been on one of those chairs that specifically go on the beach and then they can go in the sea?

Joshua Reeves: No, I would love to go one of them. I'd love to try one of them one day, but I just feel like, no, I was in a bit of a rush because I just finished a conference. So I went there for work and then I just finished the conference. Yeah. Time for a drink. And then we went to go to the mayor's house there, but obviously I got really drunk and I got stuck in the sand and then I had to sleep itoff before going to the mayor’s house.

Arunima Misra:

[Laughs]

Joshua Reeves: But yeah, it's just crazy. In your experience, then, how well do you think travel companies are, and stuff? Have you used them or do you just- Like I said, do you just plan? Pretty much booking yourself? Or have you ever used a travel agency?

Arunima Misra:  I have made a lot of enquiries with travel agents for the trips that I want to do in the future, so I've made enquiries recently to maybe buy atrip to Peru to do the Inca trail. But before then I haven't spoken to any sort of accessible travel holiday companies. I didn't even know that they existed, so the fact that when I did my little Google search, quite a few came up, that was excellent.

Joshua Reeves: Yeah. No, they are- they are pretty good and stuff, but it tends to be- what I find is, it’s not just the travel agents but like, accessible rooms are way dearer sometimes, than the normal standard rooms.

Arunima Misra: Yes.

Joshua Reeves: Or even hotels that don't have accessible rooms, they're cheaper and I just find that very frustrating.

Arunima Misra: Yeah, I do. I also think the holiday prices for the accessible travel companies are higher.

Joshua Reeves: Yeah, definitely. And that’s why I had a heart attack when they were like “It’s going to be two grand for Amsterdam”, I was like “Oh no.”

Arunima Misra: [Laughs] “No, you’re alright thanks, I’ll just put some tulips in my garden. You’re alright.”

Joshua Reeves: What changes would you like to see with the travel industry to make holidays more inclusive for everyone?

Arunima Misra: I think that there's gotta be a general- Firstly, there's gotta be a general attitude shift before anything happens in practice, and I think that this is an attitude shift that needs to reflect over a lot of pockets of society, not just travel. But it's it's the idea that disabled people can have a life, they're capable, they can travel. We want to have independence, we want to live free lives. We want to have new experiences, and all we need in order to be able to do that is accessibility. The right accessibility to suit, you know, whatever disability a person may or may not have. So I think firstly, there needs to be an attitude change and a recognition that yes, we would like to go on holiday too. Secondly, I think lots of travel companies need to realize that the value of the purple pound is huge. I know we were talking about the fact that, you know, things are more expensive, but disabled people have got money to spend and they want to spend it. So, why- there's no real reason to make everything more expensive. We're, you know, because we're- There's a lot of us that are willing to pay reasonable money to travel.

But I think it needs to become standard, there needs to be some sort of policy put in place whereby there always should be an accessible option at every hotel, every destination, every package, every tour has- should include something that's specifically designed to help a disabled traveler.

And have a discussion with them at the time and you know, work out what their needs are and work to find a plan that suits everybody.

Joshua Reeves: Yeah. I agree. I just think that in terms of- in terms of hotels In the UK, there's not many accessible hotel rooms in fact, ‘cause you have like one room or even some hotels don’t even do accessible rooms, and what they should also accommodate is reasonable adjustments, so you know, if you’re on holidays, and you need to hire a private hoist, the hotel should have in their policy that you're allowed to bring in your rental hoist, because one hotel wouldn't allow me to do that one time. I was like, well, I'm paying for this and this is how I'm gonna get into bed. 

Arunima Misra: Why did they-?

Joshua Reeves: The room wasn’t big enough. They claimed it as an accessible room but they said that the room wasn’t big enough.

Arunima Misra: Well, then they need to put you in a bigger room or they need to find a partnership hotel that they know and that, you know that they know has a bigger room and that's, you know, not so far not far away and put you in there!

Joshua Reeves: I know. it is just absolutely ridiculous. But like I said is that, I've had positive, but I've had negative experiences but you seem to be a massive traveller, which is very exciting and stuff. Before we close today's podcast. I do wanna just know- if you could suggest to our audience and to myself the top three abroad holidays to go if you have a disability?

Arunima Misra: Oh, sure. OK, so first of all, let's keep it local. So let's give everybody a local sort of destination, which I really enjoyed, was the New Forest. So I've been on holidays in the New Forest. It's a lovely, like, foresty Woody area in the South of England. Very calm, very peaceful, very tranquil. And there are a couple of accessible hotels down there. And so that's one of the first options. The second option is sort of anywhere in the States, has been good to me. I know it's far, but America has always proven to be positive, forward thinking, proactive and helpful in its attitude and, sort of, infrastructure surrounding disability, especially in the places I've been to New York and LA, they've been fantastic. And the third- I went on a coach trip all over Europe, with my dad and my my big sister. And that, for some reason, that just worked. We found an accessible coach and the hotels we made sure on on the coach trip were all accessible ones. That was a good option and a cruise. A cruise is idea if you're not really that worried about being on a boat, and if you're not that fussed about engulfing yourself or sort of throwing yourself into a culture, a foreign culture, for a really long period of time because cruises are incredibly accessible, for lots of different disabilities. Like I, sort of, said to you before Josh, I was so reticent in using my voice before and I do regret the time that I've missed out on being able to kind of advocate for our community. So I would encourage anybody that if you feel the same way, if you've got strong thoughts and opinions. Please do voice them, please do become part of the movement and you know I've got my prompt to start doing my video blogs now. So I'm going to walk the walk and not just talk the talk. [Laughs]

Joshua Reeves: [Laughs] That's great. Fab, thank you, anyway. Thanks to you, Kyle.

Arunima Misra: Thanks so much.

Isaac Corrick: Thanks so much to Josh and Arunima for a fascinating and eye opening conversation. We'd love to know what you think, so get in touch by emailing us at disabilitydownload@leonardcheshire.org or you can contact us on Twitter or Instagram @Leonard Cheshire if there's someone you'd like to hear from on the podcast, do get in touch and let us know. And don't forget to like, share and subscribe. This has been the disability download.